Yet more unbelievably ridiculous utterings from the SA health Ministry
–
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,861272,00.html
South Africa cannot afford drugs to fight HIV/Aids partly because it
needs submarines to deter attacks from nations such as the US, its
health minister said.
Manto Tshabalala-Msimang told the Guardian that budgetary priorities
meant her department could not provide anti-retrovirals to the
estimated 4.5m South Africans with HIV. "We don’t have the money for
that. Where would it come from?"
Asked if it could come from defence savings from leaving out the
submarines which formed part of a £4bn arms deal, the minister said
that South Africa needed to deter aggressors: "Look at what Bush is
doing. He could invade."
In article <4fdc9699.0212180629.6d083…@posting.google.com>,
david…@volcanomail.com (Dave) writes:
>Asked if it could come from defence savings from leaving out the
>submarines which formed part of a £4bn arms deal, the minister said
>that South Africa needed to deter aggressors: "Look at what Bush is
>doing. He could invade."
I agree that the threat from the USA is fantastic, but there are realities
nearby…
Mugabe invading the Congo to snatch their diamond mines *should* give any
neighboring, resource rich nation, at least a mild case of paranoia.
It *is* a jungle out there, but their potential attackers would be better
defended by tanks and perhaps a few missile batteries. The idea that they
need a submarine is completely off the wall. The nearest sea powers are all
across the Atlantic Ocean in South America! It’s unlikely that they would try
to take any action by sea, where a submarine would come in very handy. The
government of South Africa would be just as wise to invest in UFO defense
system, as there is as much danger from Outer Space to that nation as there is
from another African ‘sea power’!
I do not doubt the need for a defense budget in South Africa, but they
really could be more cost effective in this, but the article does not give any
other details of the arms bill. It could be that the submarine was just one
that was headed for the boat storage lot that was thrown in on top of the rest
of the real deal. In that case the South Africans would only be out the costs
of support for the craft rather than the real initial costs. But in either
case South Africa would be as well served by attention to current health needs
as this frivolous navel development!
David Giunti email: DGiu…@aol.community
What is the question? Gertrude Stein’s last words
No one mouth is big enough to utter the whole thing. Alan Watts
On Display in the UK http://www.web-gallery.co.uk
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
dgiu…@aol.community (DGiunti) wrote in message <news:20021218211731.11968.00000129@mb-df.aol.com>…
> In article <4fdc9699.0212180629.6d083…@posting.google.com>,
> david…@volcanomail.com (Dave) writes:
> >Asked if it could come from defence savings from leaving out the
> >submarines which formed part of a £4bn arms deal, the minister said
> >that South Africa needed to deter aggressors: "Look at what Bush is
> >doing. He could invade."
> I agree that the threat from the USA is fantastic, but there are realities
> nearby…
> Mugabe invading the Congo to snatch their diamond mines *should* give any
> neighboring, resource rich nation, at least a mild case of paranoia.
> It *is* a jungle out there, but their potential attackers would be better
> defended by tanks and perhaps a few missile batteries. The idea that they
> need a submarine is completely off the wall. The nearest sea powers are all
> across the Atlantic Ocean in South America! It’s unlikely that they would try
> to take any action by sea, where a submarine would come in very handy. The
> government of South Africa would be just as wise to invest in UFO defense
> system, as there is as much danger from Outer Space to that nation as there is
> from another African ‘sea power’!
> I do not doubt the need for a defense budget in South Africa, but they
> really could be more cost effective in this, but the article does not give any
> other details of the arms bill. It could be that the submarine was just one
> that was headed for the boat storage lot that was thrown in on top of the rest
> of the real deal. In that case the South Africans would only be out the costs
> of support for the craft rather than the real initial costs. But in either
> case South Africa would be as well served by attention to current health needs
> as this frivolous navel development!
It is also rather strange that the Health Minister is defending the
need for an expanded defence budget. Usually you would expect the
various ministries to be fighting like jackals for scraps around a
carcass trying to squeeze the most they could for their own needs. I
think it neatly sums up where SA’s priorities lie in the longer term.
I did find this:
<The 12-year strategic arms procurement programme includes the
purchase of four corvettes, three submarines, 30 helicopters, 24
trainer aircraft and 28 fighter aircraft, at a total cost in 1999
prices of R30.3 billion.>
http://www.news24.com/News24/Finance/Budget2002/0,5347,2-8-1264_11471…
I agree there is a regional need for strong defence, but as you say,
threats come from within/inland and there should not be a need for
submarines.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Dave) writes:
>DGiunti wrote
>> Dave writes:
>> >Asked if it could come from defence savings from leaving out the
>> >submarines which formed part of a £4bn arms deal, the minister said
>> >that South Africa needed to deter aggressors: "Look at what Bush is
>> >doing. He could invade."
>> I agree that the threat from the USA is fantastic, but there are
>> realities
>> nearby…
>> Mugabe invading the Congo to snatch their diamond mines *should* give
>> any
>> neighboring, resource rich nation, at least a mild case of paranoia.
>> It *is* a jungle out there, but their potential attackers would be better
>> defended by tanks and perhaps a few missile batteries. The idea that they
>> need a submarine is completely off the wall. The nearest sea powers are
>>all
>> across the Atlantic Ocean in South America! It’s unlikely that they would
>> try
>> to take any action by sea, where a submarine would come in very handy.
>> The
>> government of South Africa would be just as wise to invest in UFO defense
>> system, as there is as much danger from Outer Space to that nation as there
>> is
>> from another African ‘sea power’!
>> I do not doubt the need for a defense budget in South Africa, but they
>> really could be more cost effective in this, but the article does not give
>> any
>> other details of the arms bill. It could be that the submarine was just
>> one
>> that was headed for the boat storage lot that was thrown in on top of the
>> rest
>> of the real deal. In that case the South Africans would only be out the
>> costs
>> of support for the craft rather than the real initial costs. But in either
>> case South Africa would be as well served by attention to current health
>> needs
>> as this frivolous navel development!
>It is also rather strange that the Health Minister is defending the
>need for an expanded defence budget. Usually you would expect the
>various ministries to be fighting like jackals for scraps around a
>carcass trying to squeeze the most they could for their own needs. I
>think it neatly sums up where SA’s priorities lie in the longer term.
I think that everyone sees the wolf at the back door and is willing to take
precaution for protection!
>I did find this:
><The 12-year strategic arms procurement programme includes the
>purchase of four corvettes, three submarines, 30 helicopters, 24
>trainer aircraft and 28 fighter aircraft, at a total cost in 1999
>prices of R30.3 billion.>
>http://www.news24.com/News24/Finance/Budget2002/0,5347,2-8-1264_11471…
0.html
>I agree there is a regional need for strong defence, but as you say,
>threats come from within/inland and there should not be a need for
>submarines.
All the rest of the Future Soldier Scrap looks in order. It is hard to
forget that South Africa has the greatest potential to become a ‘great’ nation
because of it’s natural wealth and it’s productivity. Submarines are one of
the things that great nations need to think about, but merchant shipping will
be almost all that those subs see through their periscopes! One would think
that they could fit those corvettes with a few aux torpedo tubes and end up
similarly armed, but the subs do give them quite a bit more stealth. And maybe
what the South African nation needs is the feeling that they *are* a great
nation ready to deal with *all* potential threats, no matter how obscure the
threats may be. Somehow I just don’t see legislators running through the SA
congress saying things like "We’re ready for you Argentina!" with any
sincerity…
David Giunti email: DGiu…@aol.community
What is the question? Gertrude Stein’s last words
No one mouth is big enough to utter the whole thing. Alan Watts
On Display in the UK http://www.web-gallery.co.uk
dgiu…@aol.community (DGiunti) wrote in message <news:20021218211731.11968.00000129@mb-df.aol.com>…
> In article <4fdc9699.0212180629.6d083…@posting.google.com>,
> david…@volcanomail.com (Dave) writes:
> >Asked if it could come from defence savings from leaving out the
> >submarines which formed part of a £4bn arms deal, the minister said
> >that South Africa needed to deter aggressors: "Look at what Bush is
> >doing. He could invade."
> I agree that the threat from the USA is fantastic, but there are realities
> nearby…
Hell, even The Netherlands could be invaded
(http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/aspa080302.htm). Guess why I think
twice when Bush requests unconditional support for his ‘war against
terrorirism’. This idiot even threatens a country that is one of the
closest and oldest allies of the US.
Frank
Frank Martin <buffa…@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
553fffbb.0212180158.2f85e…@posting.google.com…
> "Alex" <avdeelen.RE…@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
<news:3dff73fc$0$168$8fcfb86b@news.wanadoo.nl>…
> > From: http://worldcrossing.com/WebX…@38.4oZ6ecJEKVn.0@.1ddb427e
> > Int J STD AIDS 2002 Oct;13(10):657-66
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubM…
> > ract
> > HIV infections in sub-Saharan Africa not explained by sexual or vertical transmission.
> So this means that many infections with HIV in Africa may be caused by
> dirty needles. If that’s true, it’s good news – providing an adequate
> supply of clean needles is easier than changing sexual behavior.
Not just needles, but the blood supply too.
> I wonder, however, if re-using needles without proper disinfection is
> the norm in african hospitals.
I guess it’s all a matter of money.
Alex
Alex <avdeelen.RE…@wanadoo.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
3e00af6d$0$163$8fcfb…@news.wanadoo.nl…
> Frank Martin <buffa…@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
> > I wonder, however, if re-using needles without proper disinfection is
> > the norm in african hospitals.
> I guess it’s all a matter of money.
PS, I think the universal introduction of needle-less injections
for at least vaccinations would go a long way.
Alex
Alex <avdeelen.RE…@wanadoo.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws 3e00af6d$0$163$8fcfb…@news.wanadoo.nl…
> Frank Martin <buffa…@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
> > I wonder, however, if re-using needles without proper disinfection is
> > the norm in african hospitals.
> I guess it’s all a matter of money.
PPS, from the 50 Years Is Enough website:
"The breakdown of health delivery systems that may accompany structural
adjustment programs also inhibits surveillance and testing for HIV," Lurie,
et. al. add. "Even HIV screening of blood used for transfusion can be
limited; in some countries only 50 percent of blood transfusions were
screened. Funding shortages also encourage the reuse of disposable
syringes, potentially contributing to HIV transmission."
http://www.50years.org/action/s26/factsheet5.html
It is not only a medical problem with use of unscreened blood and the
reuse of "single use" sharps and equipment that is resterilised
(usually autoclaved or gamma irradiation I think, both of which can be
inadequate), but traditional practices of scarification/tatoos and
traditional healers using blades to mark the skin over problem areas
of the body. These can pose a substantial risk, and may explain a
significant proportion of transmissions.
Frank Martin <buffa…@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
553fffbb.0212182324.7238d…@posting.google.com…
> "Alex" <avdeelen.RE…@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
<news:3e00f052$0$168$8fcfb86b@news.wanadoo.nl>…
> > Alex <avdeelen.RE…@wanadoo.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
3e00af6d$0$163$8fcfb…@news.wanadoo.nl…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> > > Frank Martin <buffa…@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
> > > > I wonder, however, if re-using needles without proper disinfection is
> > > > the norm in african hospitals.
> > > I guess it’s all a matter of money.
> > PPS, from the 50 Years Is Enough website:
> > "The breakdown of health delivery systems that may accompany structural
> > adjustment programs also inhibits surveillance and testing for HIV," Lurie,
> > et. al. add. "Even HIV screening of blood used for transfusion can be
> > limited; in some countries only 50 percent of blood transfusions were
> > screened. Funding shortages also encourage the reuse of disposable
> > syringes, potentially contributing to HIV transmission."
> That may very well be, but a simple treatment of the needles with
> bleach or by heating should be sufficient to kill HIV. For most
> testing/blood transfusion sites this should be available.
Do you remember seeing those documentaries about inocculation
from back in the seventies/eighties, with long lines of people
filing in front of a single healthcare worker to receive a shot?
I don’t think they even had the time if they don’t have the
clean needles.
Alex
Frank Martin <buffa…@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
553fffbb.0212192326.29eb8…@posting.google.com…
> "Alex" <avdeelen.RE…@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message news:<3e01fc98$0$149
> > Do you remember seeing those documentaries about inocculation
> > from back in the seventies/eighties, with long lines of people
> > filing in front of a single healthcare worker to receive a shot?
> > I don’t think they even had the time if they don’t have the
> > clean needles.
> Given the incubation period of HIV, I don’t think that vaccinations in
> the 70′s or 80′s explain the devastation by AIDS now.
I’m saying that I remember watching documentaries in the seventies/
eighties, not that large scale inoculation programmes stopped at any time.
Or that medical conditions improved during the years of "structural
adjustment programmes".
If people started looking at:
1) exaggeration because of improper testing
2) spread through single-sex hostels and prisons
3) spread through medical procedures
then I think a lot of progress could be made in focusing
the anti-HIV effort.
Alex
From:
http://taddeo.ingentaselect.com/vl=5204508/cl=18/fm=docpdf/nw=1/rpsv/
catchword/rsm/09564624/v13n10/s1/p657
EDITORIAL REVIEW
HIV infections in sub-Saharan Africa not explained by sexual or vertical transmission
David Gisselquist PhD1, Richard Rothenberg MD, MPH2,
John Potterat BA1 and Ernest Drucker PhD3
International Journal of STD & AIDS 2002; 13: 657± 666
HIV survival and transmission through medical instruments
HIV can survive in syringes at room temperature for more than four weeks91.
One study found HIV-RNA in three of 80 syringes after subcutaneous or
intramuscular injections of infected patients; since the volume of blood in the
syringes was too low to explain the observed HIV-RNA, the study team
hypothesized that the RNA had been released by follicular dendritic cells into
interstitial ¯ uid92. An early prospective study among health care workers
estimated the probability of seroconversion after work-related percutaneous
exposure to HIV of approximately 0.3%93. However, a case± control study
of percutaneous exposures by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and
health authorities in the United Kingdom and France assessed risks for deep
injuries (6.8% of controls vs 52% of cases) to be 15 times greater than for
other percutaneous exposures94,95. Furthermore, many health care workers
were treated with zidovudine for post-exposure prophylaxis, which reportedly
reduced seroconversion rates by over 80% 95. Because medical injections
occasion a deep injury and are not countered by antivirals, HIV transmission
during unsafe injections may well be an order of magnitude greater than 0.3%96.
Epidemic of unsafe injections in much of Africa and South Asia
In a recent review, Simonsen et al.97 concluded that the average person in the
developing world received 1.5 injections per year (range 0.9 to 8.5). In the
majority of studies reviewed, the proportion of injections that were unsafe was
greater than 50%. Despite the lack of systematic data collection noted by the
authors, these ® ndings were consistent over a range of developing world
settings. In a companion piece, Kane et al.98 estimated that 80 000 to
160 000 HIV infections occur worldwide each year (two-thirds of these
in Africa) from unsafe injections.
These model-based estimates assume a transmission ef® ciency of 0.5%
through unsafe injections, which as noted above, may be an order of magnitude
too low. Further, these estimates do not consider the concentration of medical
injections in certain groups (e.g., CSWs, STD patients, pregnant women) and
settings with high HIV prevalence. Starting in the 1950s Africans experienced a
massive increase in medical injections associated with mass injection campaigns
targeted at yaws, with introduction and spread of parenteral therapies to treat
other diseases, and with plummeting prices for antibodies and injection
equipment99.
For example, UNICEF administered 12 million injections for yaws in Central
Africa alone during 1952± 5799. From the 1950s into the 1980s, unsafe injections
may have contributed to the silent spread of HIV in Africa in much the same way
that unsafe injections for schistosomiasis and other treatments in Egypt established
hepatitis C as a major blood-borne pathogen, infecting about 15% to 20% of the
general population at the end of the 1990s 100.
CONCLUSION
Taken together, our observations raise the serious possibility that an important portion
of HIV transmission in Africa may occur through unsafe injections and other unsterile
medical procedures. After some early interest and research on iatrogenic transmission
in Africa, most notably in Kinshasha during the 1980s, the topic all but vanished from the
research agenda. Considering the aggressive reactions to evidence of iatrogenic HIV
infections in Russia, Romania, Libya, and China, and considering as well international
attention to the transmission of Ebola virus through health care practice, the absence
of thorough investigation into documented incidents ofmultiple HIV infections
suspected from health care in Africa (e.g. HIV-positive children with HIV-negative
mothers cited above) is noteworthy.
Fortunately, there are recent indications, at WHO97,98 and elsewhere, of increasing
attention to iatrogenic risks of blood-borne microbes. To the extent that unsterile
procedures in routine medical care represent a possibly major route of HIV transmission
in countries with high HIV prevalence, the current tenets on which HIV prevention
programmes in Africa are based need reassessment.
Though promotion of safe sexual practices remains a priority, new interventions may be
required to minimize risk from iatrogenic transmission. and the structure of medical
research on AIDS in Africa.
__________________________
To read all, go to:
http://taddeo.ingentaselect.com/vl=5204508/cl=18/fm=docpdf/nw=1/rpsv/
catchword/rsm/09564624/v13n10/s1/p657
It makes sense that widespread used of unsterilized needles during
mass vaccination programs helped HIV spread much more rapidly than it
otherwise would have spread. All these factors—contaminated blood,
I-V drug addiction with sharing of "dirty needles", scarification and
tattooing, hemophilia blood products infected with HIV, as well as
sexual transmission, have spread hepatitis as well as HIV in the U.S.
Gary
http://gjminter.addr.com
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"Alex" <avdeelen.RE…@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message <news:3e038f4c$0$157$8fcfb86b@news.wanadoo.nl>…
> Frank Martin <buffa…@hotmail.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
> 553fffbb.0212192326.29eb8…@posting.google.com…
> > "Alex" <avdeelen.RE…@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message news:<3e01fc98$0$149
> > > Do you remember seeing those documentaries about inocculation
> > > from back in the seventies/eighties, with long lines of people
> > > filing in front of a single healthcare worker to receive a shot?
> > > I don’t think they even had the time if they don’t have the
> > > clean needles.
> > Given the incubation period of HIV, I don’t think that vaccinations in
> > the 70′s or 80′s explain the devastation by AIDS now.
> I’m saying that I remember watching documentaries in the seventies/
> eighties, not that large scale inoculation programmes stopped at any time.
> Or that medical conditions improved during the years of "structural
> adjustment programmes".
> If people started looking at:
> 1) exaggeration because of improper testing
> 2) spread through single-sex hostels and prisons
> 3) spread through medical procedures
> then I think a lot of progress could be made in focusing
> the anti-HIV effort.
> Alex
Frank Martin writes:
>Gary J. Minter wrote
>…
>> It makes sense that widespread used of unsterilized needles during
>> mass vaccination programs helped HIV spread much more rapidly than it
>> otherwise would have spread.
>No, that doesn’t make sense at all. Where is your evidence to support this
>claim?
Frank, this is one of this points that you can’t deny in general, but can
in specific instances. There are all sorts of documented cases of diseases
getting passed around in Africa via reused dirty needles. The nay sayers think
that every campaign to remove a new scourge is the same as these. They are
like the people that think it’s going to rain all the time: sometimes they are
right, but most of the time they are simply just depressed or simply crazy.
It’s depression to the point that accusation is constant. The fact that no
one in Africa (or any place else on Earth) has come down with Small Pox in 20
years doesn’t mean a thing… they ‘know’ that needle must have transmitted
some disease! And from some of the reports, it may have. Infection Control is
something a professional has to keep in mind constantly, in Africa OR America.
It must be easier to let standards lapse when your source for sterile supplies
is a thousand miles away, and only sometimes accessible via porters or
landrover for part of the year. I am reminded of an old saw "It’s easy to
forget that you came to drain the swamp when you up to you ankles with
alligators".
David Giunti email: DGiu…@aol.community
What is the question? Gertrude Stein’s last words
No one mouth is big enough to utter the whole thing. Alan Watts
On Display in the UK http://www.web-gallery.co.uk